bigbearhunter
6 Point Buck
Take a kid hunting they are our future
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Post by bigbearhunter on Sept 5, 2005 19:42:54 GMT -5
I've been working on sighting in my Encore and cant get it to shoot. I'm shooting 150 grs of powder (loose) and have tried Maxi Balls, and powerbelts. we can't shoot pellets or sabots. Any one have a thought on this? I'm wondering if the gun isn't more for the sabots? ? It won't hardly even hit paper consistantly at 100yds HELPPPPPP
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Scott Kirsch
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Post by Scott Kirsch on Sept 5, 2005 20:15:31 GMT -5
I've been working on sighting in my Encore and cant get it to shoot. I'm shooting 150 grs of powder (loose) and have tried Maxi Balls, and powerbelts. we can't shoot pellets or sabots. Any one have a thought on this? I'm wondering if the gun isn't more for the sabots? ? It won't hardly even hit paper consistantly at 100yds HELPPPPPP BBH - You are in luck. I know many people who have been reporting this problem. It boils down to this. In the end of you Encore's muzzle loader barrel, there is a 3/4" to 1.5" un-rifled (i.e. smoothbore) section called the QLA or Quick Load Accurizer. It's purpose is to allow easier seating of projectiles during loading. Well, it does that just fine. Here's the problem: That QLA is not in line (concentric) with the rifled section of the barrel's bore! Gunsmith David Smith has seen many of these and offers a correction. The correction? Chop the QLA off the barrel entirely, re-crown it with an 11° target crown, re-blue, and re-mount the front sight for $75. This will fix the problem. Most users on the www.bellmtcs.com website have dropped their 100 yard 3-shot group's to under 1.5" routinely! Here's the link to the discussion at Mike BellM's website (read all of the posts-6 pages!). www.bellmtcs.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=560&s=5774c570edfb74081df1b28d18705fcaAnyone with a TC Encore 209 x 50 (or 209 x 45) Muzzleloader is highly encouraged to check this site out before you start using your barrel as a machete! David White's contact information is also in the post. Let me know how things turn out. -Sloppy Snood
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bigbearhunter
6 Point Buck
Take a kid hunting they are our future
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Post by bigbearhunter on Sept 5, 2005 20:52:25 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. I notice that the bullets go in mighty easy. I will have to get this done.. Thanks again for the info
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Post by RodnGun on Sept 6, 2005 8:07:39 GMT -5
How can these guys come to market with a product that has such a problem with accuracy that it requires people to modify/chop off the end of the barrel and go through all of that....on a brand new ML!! Are you kidding me???
Bigbear.....you seem to be taking this a lot easier than I would....I'd be a raving maniac!!!
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Scott Kirsch
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Post by Scott Kirsch on Sept 6, 2005 14:33:35 GMT -5
How can these guys come to market with a product that has such a problem with accuracy that it requires people to modify/chop off the end of the barrel and go through all of that....on a brand new ML!! Are you kidding me??? This just how things go with Thompson Center. The Encore is a greatly designed product but some of their machinists and staff leave a lot to be desired/understood (especially the guys/gals cutting the QLA's). Lack of quality control in that area. And if this shocks you, check this out. The over-travel set screw in the trigger guard is not even long enough to set the gun's over-travel to a minimum! The stockAllen head screw is too short and most gunsmiths have to install a longer screw after trigger jobs. Incredible right!?? Not really, all of the "gun industry" have skeletons in the closet....you just may or may not be aware of them. -Sloppy
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bigbearhunter
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Take a kid hunting they are our future
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Post by bigbearhunter on Sept 6, 2005 17:44:47 GMT -5
You know, I deal alot with guns and have come to expect that the ML's will be a problem, Several years ago I tried 4 different Rem 700 ML's and not a one would shoot. I picked up a Knight and 3 shots in the center at 100yds, now the T/C I do think it is a crock of crap but what do you do??? I will be sending some of my thoughts on to T/C but not that it will do much good. The bad part of all of this is that my ML season starts this Saturday and I'm going ot have to shoot my Knight. No biggie but would have liked to shoot the T/C
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Post by Scott on Sept 6, 2005 21:40:11 GMT -5
Ditch the powerbelts and try some other load combinations.The Encore is overbored and the powerbelts let too much gas escape around the side of the plastic cup.
Did you shoot this gun last yr?
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Post by Win Mag on Sept 6, 2005 22:53:36 GMT -5
How about the Conicals or a buffalo Bullet.The rate of twist plays a part in the accuacy from sabot to Ball too.
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Randy Wakeman
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Post by Randy Wakeman on Nov 29, 2005 20:01:15 GMT -5
There are a few other things you can try. 150 grains of powder is really no starting load; I have never tested any muzzleloader that shot its best with 150 grains at all.
90 - 100 grains of loose Triple 7 pushing a .40 / 50 200 gr. Shockwave is often a good load, as is the 245 gr. Barnes Spitfire. Weighing T7 shrinks groups.
Floating the barrel away from the forearm turned 5" groups into MOA groups for me.
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loserchumpandfool
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Post by loserchumpandfool on Nov 30, 2005 22:39:44 GMT -5
There are a few other things you can try. 150 grains of powder is really no starting load; I have never tested any muzzleloader that shot its best with 150 grains at all. 90 - 100 grains of loose Triple 7 pushing a .40 / 50 200 gr. Shockwave is often a good load, as is the 245 gr. Barnes Spitfire. Weighing T7 shrinks groups. Floating the barrel away from the forearm turned 5" groups into MOA groups for me. i agree.my ML would not group at all with 150 grains of powder.i dropped down to 130 and started getting excellent groups then
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Scott Kirsch
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Post by Scott Kirsch on Dec 3, 2005 16:32:32 GMT -5
No biggie but would have liked to shoot the T/C A couple of other "at home" modifications tht have been reported to increased TC Encore ML accuracy. 1. Sand the "ears" of the fore end so that when installed, the ears don't rub on or otherwise touch the receiver. Check fitment using a 1 dollar bill. 2. Take an appropriate-sized socket and wrap it with sandpaper (choose grit based on how much wood you want to remove). With the fore end removed, sand back and forth until the barrel does not touch the fore end anywhere (floating). Check by running your 1 dollar biller between the barrel and fore end. Check all the way from one end to the other. The bill should move freely if you have sanded enough. 3. Buy an oversized hinge pin. Mike BellM sells 4 different sizes. The purpose is to remove any play between the receiver and the barrel lug connection. My Encore required the 2X sized hinge pin (90% of Encores require the 1X or 2X hinge pin for a tight fit). Installation is pretty easy but I had to pound my 2x pin in using the brass end of a tractor lynch pin and a baby sledge hammer. Tight, no play and helped Sloppy shoot his first sub-1 MOA 3-shot group using 105 grains of Triple Seven & the Precision Rifle Duplex Sabot .357 diameter, all lead muzzle loader bullet! -Sloppy
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mrjbigfoot
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Post by mrjbigfoot on Dec 3, 2005 19:49:11 GMT -5
This may or may not apply but my buddy, that I've been hunting with the last couple of days, missed an easy shot on a deer with his Encore yesterday & then realized that one of his 2 stock mounting screws was loose. We tightened it up (a bunch) and then re-checked it at 50 yards & it was good to go. It was the back screw that was loose & you could wiggle and lift up the back half of the barrel/trigger assembly.
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A Far Cry
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Post by A Far Cry on Dec 3, 2005 22:07:16 GMT -5
My experience wasn't with the ML barrel either, but poor accuracy cost me an antelope with my Encore a couple of years ago. It shot great on the paper but my performance was horrible on a hunt. Got to looking and one of the forearm screws had actually fallen out and was gone. A little lock tight and a new screw and I was back in business. Just something to be aware of.
Don
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Scott Kirsch
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Post by Scott Kirsch on Dec 4, 2005 1:07:08 GMT -5
This may or may not apply but my buddy, that I've been hunting with the last couple of days, missed an easy shot on a deer with his Encore yesterday & then realized that one of his 2 stock mounting screws was loose. We tightened it up (a bunch) and then re-checked it at 50 yards & it was good to go. It was the back screw that was loose & you could wiggle and lift up the back half of the barrel/trigger assembly. My experience wasn't with the ML barrel either, but poor accuracy cost me an antelope with my Encore a couple of years ago. It shot great on the paper but my performance was horrible on a hunt. Got to looking and one of the forearm screws had actually fallen out and was gone. A little lock tight and a new screw and I was back in business. Just something to be aware of. Don Biggie and Don - I declare your posts 2 more reasons why.......... Loc-Tite Blue is Your Best Shooting Friend-Sloppy
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HighTechRedneck
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Post by HighTechRedneck on Dec 4, 2005 9:05:55 GMT -5
1. Sand the "ears" of the fore end so that when installed, the ears don't rub on or otherwise touch the receiver. Check fitment using a 1 dollar bill. I had to do this on my Contender. Has anybody tried bedding instead of floating? I floted my Contender 14" .44 mag with no change in accuracy. Have been considering bedding it to see if that does anything at all. If it does not improve accuracy the bedding compound can always be sanded out.
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