Do you use Bait or Trails?

[bigj1975]

This is a subject that I have a pretty strong opinion on. How many of you guys hunt over a bait pile?(apples, corn, carrots, beats, etc).

I wish baiting would be banned in my state. I know so many people that hunt over bait and if they couldn't they probably wouldn't hunt at all. They claim "It's the only way I can see deer"......sounds like an excuse for not knowing how to really hunt to me.

I think the quality of deer would skyrocket. Instead guys shoot these young bucks that aren't smart enough to stay away from bait piles yet. It doesn't take any skill to shoot a deer sitting over a bait pile with a high caliber rifle and a huge scope.............none. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Archers I give just a smidge more credit because it's harder to kill a deer with a bow but it's still a pathetic way to hunt IMO.

I doubt Michigan will ever do away with baiting just because there is to much money in it which is a terrible reason. We get alot of out of state hunters coming here and the money this state would lose in hunting licenses for both in-state and out-of-state hunters would be staggering. Not to mention the extra cash a few farmers make.

Now the Michigan DNR blames baiting for the spread of diseases. I must admit I don't believe the spreading of certain diseases are just because of baiting. However I don't think it helps the situation.

My relatives in the U.P. sit in there huge heated mini homes (they call blinds) over a bait pile 40 yards away with their big rifles and they think it's the only way to hunt. I can't even go up there for rifle season because I get so tired of hearing them complain about how the newly introduced wolf population has killed off all the deer or some other excuse.

They have gotten a little upset with me the last 3 years because I've gotten two 8 pointers and a 10 point with my bow at our camp. I did alot of scouting and used scents, calls, and scrape lines to bag these deer. They think I'm killing off all the deer they would've gotten if I hadn't hunted near the camp. They don't get anything besides spikes and 4 pointers. I think it's because the bigger bucks are to smart to just trot into the open at a bait pile. The only chance they have at a big deer is having a hot doe on their bait pile and they make a mistake. This hasn't happened in the last 9 years between 7 guys. Do they try hunting a different way.......no of course not. They might get cold. It's ok because I'll just keep getting the big ones and get a chill while they sit nice and warm staring at a pile of beats and apples.

[timhicks]

I guess I am a bit spoiled here in Texas, I can hunt over bait , I can hunt with a light for hogs at night , I van do alot that others can't. I hunt a feeder sometimes and sometimes I dont , I hunt alot of treelines and field edges, or should I say food plots/. I try not to hunt a feeder unless I want to shoot a hog, It may seem like I am boasting but its not any fun. I can get my does here in two days and hunt for a bigger buck when they go to rutting. I like hunting a feeder to get relaxed see slot of deer and calm a bit then I can hopefully relax a bit when or if a big sucker comes in. No matter how many deer you see if abig one comes in you are going to get antsy,, Tim

[stackenem]

Bigj I agree that the baiting issue here in Mi is a problem. I wish they would ban it totally. I hunt trals and natural feeding areas. What part of Mi are you in? I'm in Howell.

[Phishy]

oooh, im glad to hear there's other who feel the same about baiting. here's abit of something i wrote a few years back when cwd was found in wi, baiting was banned then and all sorts off hell broke loose, since then the whiners have made enough noise and baiting is allowed in a very regualted manner, huh yeah right... anyway, my two cents worth, (this ended up in the paper although very downplayed, cut and modified, ticked me off the person i am writing in response to had a full page, i got 500 words, hmmm.. some bias??) a tad long.................................................................................

In response to a recent letter written by ________________:

I am offended that such a person has the audacity to think he speaks for all sportsmen. He suggests hunting without bait is a hindrance to success. When I first was introduced to hunting, my mentor religiously used bait as a means to harvest deer. I did not have the opportunity to be raised in the traditional hunting family as he did, so I assumed such practices were how a person hunted. My first deer harvested was with a bow and not over bait, but rather learning the woods, proper stand placement, and patience, was the reasons for my success. It was a lesson hard learned on how to hunt, which I will never forgot. To this date, I have not shot a deer over bait.

I suggest _______________not so hidden agenda is he can’t bait. Admit it, you can’t hunt without it. I probably have seen more individual deer by being versatile in my hunting approach than you have over your bait pile, always the same does, fawns and small bucks over the same bait piles, out of the same stands, year after year. Hunting isn’t just about killing deer, it’s also about the experience, woodsmanship, reverence for the animal being hunted and the strength to admit we won’t always succeed. How dare you raise your voice and implicate you speak for me and others like myself! I can do my own speaking, thank you very much!

As for your attacks on the DNR, I don’t wish to speak for them, but state my opinions as to what I perceive. You stated the Department “… has become an agency out of control and drunk with their power.” I propose you’re drunk on ignorance and hatred for things that contradict your lazy hunting style. Perhaps I am judging you and should give the benefit of the doubt, but I wonder, for what did you get pinched? It has been my experience, a person that holds so much disgust for something typically has something looming in the past, perhaps I am wrong, but I am only speculating. Perhaps your concerns are genuine and the basis on which you form your opinions are ignorance of what the DNR is meant to protect, the resources, not your selfish want to put out corn for deer.

What do you propose the DNR’s response to CWD should have been? Colorado has CWD. It was discovered there about 40 years ago and has been in the wild herd for approximately 20 years. CWD hasn’t been the same type of potential threat to Colorado as it might be to Wisconsin only because of lower deer densities; yet Colorado’s suggestion to other states which contract CWD is to fight it like the plague. In the years it has been in the wild, it has spread steadily, and continues to consume the deer population. Should the DNR wait? Should baiting and feeding continue to be allowed in areas that haven’t tested positive for CWD only because it hasn’t been proven with utmost certainty that deer to deer contact is greater over a pile of corn? How large of an area should become infected before a reaction? I believe, just because of lack of concrete proof of transmission, doesn’t mean lack of action. If a person or domestic animal contracts any contagious and deadly disease, both the contagious and seemingly contagious (without complete and solid proof) are quarantined. As soon as somebody suggests how such an action can be performed on a wild deer herd, by not reducing the herd, I’m all for it. Forget immunizations, one hasn’t been created yet. Testing on live animals, still working on that one, even then how would we administer the treatments? What do you suggest the DNR’s actions should be, _____?? Allow the transmission of a potentially deadly and tragic disease run rampid through the deer herd?? I’m listening.

You make it appear the DNR hates deer. I don’t know of any DNR employee who would think deer are the bane of their existence. Quite the contrary, without the sales of deer hunting licenses, many other wildlife programs wouldn’t be able to exist. Many, if not most DNR, employees I know hunt whitetail deer and/or other species. CWD on the other hand, has become a massive festering sore, which will not go away. Deer by themselves are not the problem, it’s the problems associated with too many deer - the diseases and human selfishness.

What are the long term affects if CWD is allowed to wipe out the herd (it may not as _____ suggests, it’s only an if, and the government shouldn’t be allowed to operate on ifs)? Not only are the feed suppliers affected, but restaurants, sport shops, hotels, farmers, etc. etc. You suggest these businesses already have been affected. Yes they have been! I will not dispute! But license sales were only down 10% statewide, imagine if the deer herd was at such a level where only 75% (or lower) of the hunters were able to hunt due to deer numbers becoming so low, hunting becomes a lottery system, where a person could only hunt maybe 1 out of 4 years . What kind of impact would that have upon the economy of the State of Wisconsin?

I had to do a bit of calculating to put into perspective this amount of revenue lost due to the ban on feeding and baiting. Let’s say $100 million were lost in corn sales, $100 million at $4.00 per 50 # bag of corn. This translates to about 625,000 ton of corn statewide, or nearly 8700 ton per county, if distributed evenly. Am I the only one which finds this absurd? You’re trying to tell me we put out that much corn? Just because something is profitable doesn’t make it morally right. What kind of affect does this unnatural surge of food have on the health of the deer population? Where is your foresight? If we lose our deer in Wisconsin, that $100 million will be a drop in the bucket compared to the potentially 100’s of millions or possibly even billion. You want to continue profiting during the present because it suits your selfish needs, without regard to the future?

Several theories are being opted for the cause and transmission of CWD. I’ve heard these and other possibilities bounced around by some groups, “ ..might be caused by chemicals in the soil, it might be contracted and spread by insects, it might be a protein deficiency.” I might agree with one - protein deficiency - caused by too much corn. Perhaps an option which you won’t admit, corn after all is mostly carbohydrates. Maybe baiting and feeding have caused a biological unbalance; does are recruiting more fawns than the landscape is capable of handling, thereby causing a biological response. It is a simple biological concept that overcrowding causes stress, disease and mortality (Population J Curve). Perhaps your precious corn agenda is the cause. Again I am only speculating, as are you.

As for the use of bait to reduce the population in the CWD hotspot. It is a tool being used to help with the reduction of the deer herd. You of all people should know how much easier it is to lure deer in with vast piles of corn. It is a tool being utilized not to make the job more fun, but more time efficient. The DNR is not hunting deer, they are removing them, and they are trying to reduce the risk of CWD spreading into adjoining states and throughout our state. When somebody is performing a job, don’t you think they should be able to use the tools available, including shooting at night under strict protocol and training? You make it seem as though DNR is going to grab their guns, slap on silencers, spot lights, and load up in the back of the pickup truck, go barreling through a field, running from corn pile to corn pile, blazing away at everything in sight, without regard to safety. Is that what you really think? Or do you think the DNR will be under so much scrutiny that they will have to write pages and pages of protocol in order to eliminate, to the best of their abilities, every possible accident scenario?

I am in support of what the DNR has been implementing to fight the potentially catastrophic plight we all now know as - CWD. I don’t want to see the use of bait reinstated in hunting practices. I enjoyed watching the deer from my bow stand during the day while they searched for food, rather than waiting until near dark when the deer finally rose from their beds and traveled to the nearest corn pile under the cover of darkness. The only provision I could see as acceptable for the public to bait, would be to create opportunities for the physically impaired. This group should have the privilege to hunt as well, but where does one draw the line for determination of eligibility? I don’t know, nor do I pretend to even begin to offer suggestions. Strict regulations and permits would obviously need to be created. The point is to not revert to the supposedly profitable 9,000 tons of corn placed out for deer in each county.

Feeding was an enjoyable past time for many, but it mutated to an obsession which has been chewed on until the flavor disappeared. Deer no longer retain that special connection for people to nature. They have nearly become domesticated pets in every one’s back yard. No longer do people, when at the site of a deer in their backyard, call to the rest of the family and rush to the window to awe at such a magnificent animal. Maybe some day, without losing our herd to CWD, people will regain the proper prospective what deer are - wild creatures.

I want to congratulate the DNR on not taking the easy path. Job well done. But the fight isn’t over. Please don’t bend to the wailing of a selfish minority. If things were up to them, they would let CWD ruin deer hunting for future generations. I don’t want to take the risk of letting CWD run its course, only to find out in the future; maybe the DNR should have taken action, but now it’s too late.

James

[Phishy]

Oh by the way i hate baiting

[kahuna]

great letter, phishy. What grabs me by the shorthairs is that all the work I put into a spot...scouting, setting a stand, mock scrape...whatever, and some yahoo comes and drops 500# of corn or cabbage a couple of hundred yards away from my set-up. It totally changed the pattern of the deer, and I am left with either moving to yet another location, or sit the stand in vague hopes that I was right about my decision of the area.

[rjet]

I have hunted over bait in Ar for years. I feed deer protein pellets on my texas lease all year.
I tend not to hunt over the feeders for deer anymore.
If baiting is legal I have no problem with someone hunting over it if they choose.

Here is what I have seen/not seen hunting over bait:
I have never seen a big buck in daylight hours hit a corn pile, and that is after many days sitting all day looking over one.
Does/fawns/young bucks are an easy target if gun hunting 45 yards away.
Does arent so easy bowhunting over bait, they are on their tippie toes the whole time while going in.

I would much rather now days sit off a feeding area on a main trail say 100 yards away from the food plot. But if you wanna just go out and watch deer baiting is great. My kids get a kick out of sitting in a field stand I built (4x8) with a feeder 100 yards away and watching deer.
I believe it does change the pattern of the deer though, specially when you have 20 guys on a 1500 acre lease and all of em are throwing corn all over the place starting the week before deer season.

[tuffbroadhead]

I hate to see this topic come up for the sole reason there are TWO sides of the fence and neither side will EVER agree!!! And it usally gets to be a very heated topic... to me its not worth ruining new friendships!!!

We are all hunters , lets go HUNTING!!

[kahuna]

Well said.

[Crysar]

I agree with TB.

[Win Mag]

IL doesn't allow hunting over a bait pile,They did allow baiting,but you have to wait ten days b-4 hunting the baited area.
I myself have never baited or hunted a bait site for deer.I enjoy putting in the time and effort of scouting and setting myself up on deer.My father didn't deer hunt.And i had to learn by trial and error the right and wrongs.Even though i feel i am now well schooled in deer hunting,i still learn from my mistakes, and from you good members as well.

How about the subject of Baiting for Bear.
I have plans to Bow hunt for a blackie and hunting over a bait site is what i plan to do it.
Some states have the open range for spot and stalk methods, but where i plan to hunt is dense timber.There is just no way one is going to stalk up on a bear in this type of environment successfully.I am not paying for a guide it's a do it your self hunt with the aid of a friend that lives near the area i will be hunting(he is going to bait the site for me,once I've drawn a tag.

Phishy do feel the same about baiting for Bear as you do for Deer ?
Or do you feel there is a difference and maybe a need for baiting to hunt Northwoods bear

[bigj1975]

This thread is going like I kind of thought it would. I'm sure there are a few guys that do bait and that is there perogitive if it's legal. I choose not to but that doesn't mean they are bad people.

99.9% of the people on this forum are on it because they love to hunt not for the kill, but for the love of the sport. Most hunting enthusiasts prefer to hunt with their skills and instincts and not over a bait pile.

When I wrote this I thought it might fuel a spark but I was honestly hoping to get the results it did.

[timhicks]

BigJ dont worry about starting problems here!! These people here respect and treat each other like they want to be treated, So far all I have seen is just personal opinions, and believe me we all have a difference. I ,like I said bait . It doesnt mean I sit on a feeder and wait for a monster deer to show up.. Not likely. Now for hogs I bait . I hunt just over bait unless I am lucky and see some crossing as I walk in. With a hog ,bear or something like that safety is in baiting and the odds go up, you could turn this thing all around and say do you fish?? do you use bait to catch the fish?? Do you use a call ?? A buck rutting is attracted to a grunt or rattle is this in someway baiting,, If a person doesnt believe in baiting he doesnt he was trained and raised differently. Its not a bad thing. I am spoiled here in Texas but we dont have alot of the problems other states have with diseases and such, If it was affecting my deer or hog population I would not like baiting either. I say I bait deer no not really I put out a few blocks and feed corn most of the year, with supplements and such,, We cant grow corn or beans or alfalfa or anything that would make a trophy deer bigger where I am. We do food plots is that bait.. No Its just a difference on how we do things and we are all different. I fry my wild turkey breast in peanut oil how do you do it.. Tim

[THE GOB-FATHER]

Here's my thoughts on this...

For one... I don't and never will hunt over a bait pile. Does that mean those who choose to do so are lessor hunters than I .... not at all!

Problem is... is that we tend to start classifying hunters into groups of "good" and "bad" based on their technique and chosen method of hunting and try to tie that into how we were brought up to hunt. That's where it all starts going downhill. Unfortunately some take it to the next level by bickering back and forth who's doing the right thing when both parties included will more than likely never back down from what they feel is right. So, is there an end game to it?? As far as I can see no... because people are what they are and that's the beauty of having the freedom of choice... so long as it's legal. And that's pretty much where I stand... so long as it's legal who am I to say what's right and wrong? Although I may not chose to do it myself and don't feel it's something that is what I feel is right doesn't mean that someone has their reasons for believing that it is.

We have laws in effect for a reason and it is those who make those laws that control what is legal and not who we have to entrust that it is right for any given reason.... whether or not we agree with it. Take for example Texas... feeders, bait piles etc. could be useful for the type of terrain that comes with the territory. Lots of flat land with brush everywhere and no real "Funnels" as we have here in NY. So what natural land feature could you use like we could up here to strategically place your stand in the right spot to harvest a nice buck? I used to live in Texas and from the landscape perspective it was NOTHING like it is here! Not saying that bucks can't be patterned down there but I would assume that it would be much more difficult playing the odds game in Texas vs. here in NY with a nice natural funnel leading to a food source. Make sense?

So, the way I look at it, we always do things to try to up our odds and that's why we are the dominant predator... we have the abilities to adapt and adhere to our situation and overcome the odds. Should we have a discussion on whether or not scopes are ethical? Well, people out west with flat rolling grassy land are almost forced to take those abnormally long shots and would almost be impossible without the aid of optics... and with that in mind should binoculars be debated as well considering we are using a device that brings game into focus more-so than our own naked eye could? Or are bows the only way we should hunt game? High powered, flat shooting rifles like a 7 mag would be illegal if that were the case but for some reason they don't seem to catch as much flack as bait piles do.

Again, I don't believe that I would ever feel that bait piles are the way to go when hunting deer. But that's just me and based on how I grew up hunting. We all have different stories and different views on this topic and so long as it's legal, we share the same respect for the game we are hunting and it's done for the love of the game... then who's to say what's right or wrong given it come from the way "You feel it should be"? Just my opinion.

[Country2dBone]

I COULD NOT AGREE WITH THE GOB FATHER MORE. LET THE GUY WHO WANTS TO HUNT THE BAIT AND KILL FOR THE MOST PART FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN IN MY STATE THE SMALLER SIZE BUCKS. LET THAT TROPHY RACK HUNTER HUNT HIS HARD WORK OF SCOUTING A MATURE BUCK SIGN KILL THE BIGGER ANIMAL LONG AS THEY ARE LEGAL THEY BOTH PAID MONEY THEY WORKED FOR TO BUY THIER LICENCE TO HUNT HOW THEY WISH. THEY WILL BOTH BE IN TROUBLE IF THEY DO NOT STAND TOGETHER FOR THE COMMON GROUND THEY BOTH STAND UPON. THAT IS PROTECTION OF ALL OUR RIGHTS AS HUNTERS.