two calibers in mind..maybe

[huntmaster12]

does anyone have any expirience with the 308 caliber?..is it as good as a 30-06?

[''HILLBILLY'']

you can't go wrong with either one

[huntmaster12]

WELL THANKS HILLBILLY..LEANING MORE TOWARDS THE 308

[grizz1]

Both are very good calibers, personally I prefer the 30-06 simply because it seems the ammunition is so readily available, at least where I have traveled.
A .308 would fit right in my gun safe too, no problem.

[huntmaster12]

i am in love with both calibers

[Ghost]

I know recoil is an issue for you Eric so let me start off with what the expected recoil of both cablers will approximately be based off of an average 8.5 pound gun.

First the 30 - 06:

20.1 - 20.5 lbs of recoil energy

The .308 Win:

14.5 - 17.0 lbs.

The ballistics of both the 30 - 06 and the 308 Win are fairly close considering the big difference in case size and the ability of the 06 to hold a larger charge. Both are capable of taking game up to moose with proper bullet placement. When considering both of the rounds for anything smaller than Elk, the 308 and the 30 -06 are quite capable.

My personal opinion though is that if you are looking at the 30 - 06 you would be better off to look at the 300 Win Mag. Now I know that recoil is a issue for you and with that the .308 Win is the better choice. We know that an 8 lb gun can produce recoil energy ranging form 14.5 - 17.0 lbs. No most factory/tactical rifles are ranging from 9.0 - 11.0 lbs. and adding a scope to that will put the rifle weight around 10. 5 - 12.5 lbs. With this weight the recoil energy is dramatically reduced to around 12.0 - 14.0 lbs. Adding a break to a .308 of this weight drops it even further. I am shooting a considerably heavy 308 (18.3 lbs) and the recoil of this gun is equivalent to a .223/556. If I had to guess the recoil of a 11.5 lb 308 Win would be somewhere around a 6.8 spc. considerably easier on your shoulder that that of the 30 - 06.


One reason that the 30-06 has remained entrenched as an extremely popular round for so long is that the cartridge is at the upper limit of power that is tolerable to most shooters.[16] [17] Recoil energy (Free recoil) greater than 20 foot pounds (27.1 joules) will cause most shooters to develop a serious flinch, and the recoil energy of an 8 pound 30-06, firing a 165 grain bullet at 2900 ft/s is 20.1 foot pounds (27.3 joules). Recoil shy shooters can opt for lighter bullets, such as a 150 grain. In the same 8 pound rifle, a 150 grain bullet at 2910 ft/s will only generate 17.6 foot pounds (23.9 joules) of recoil energy.[18] Young shooters can start out with even lighter bullets such as the 110, 125 or 130

Seems to me that any time there's more metal contacting the bullet, the greater [the] chance that more variables come into play. Besides, folks who shoot highpower rifles the most accurate[ly] have very little case neck tension on the bullet anyway.

It's really easier to have uniform case neck tension by having it light in the first place; neck length doesn't come into play when this is how it's done. And ammo that's been handloaded [which is] then let set for several weeks or months will have a greater release force needed with long necks because of dissimilar materials bonding between bullet jacket and case neck/fouling. There's more area to bond when longer necks are used.

All that aside, lets go back to when the .30-06 and .308 were the only cartridges allowed in NRA match rifle matches. Both cartridges were used in barrels of equal quality as well as the same action and stocks by several top shooters in the USA. Both cartridges were used in matches at ranges from 100 through 1000 yards. Many thousands of rounds were fired in both types. Bullets from 168 through 200 grains were used with several powder, case and primer combinations.

In comparing accuracy between the .308 and .30-06, folks who used each quickly agreed on one thing: .308s were two to three times more accurate than the .30-06. In the early 1960s, it was also observed that competitors with lower classifications using .308s were getting higher scores than higher classified folks using .30-06s; at all ranges. By the middle to late 1960s, all the top highpower shooters and virtually all the rest had switched to the .308. The Highpower Committee had received so many complaints of ties not being able to be broke between shooters using the .308 and shooting all their shots in the tie-breaking V-ring, something had to be done to resolve this issue. In 1966, the NRA cut in half the target scoring ring dimensions.

At the peak of the .30-06's use as a competition cartridge, the most accurate rifles using it would shoot groups at 200 yards of about 2 inches, at 300 of about 3 inches. The 600-yard groups were 6 to 7 inches and at 1000 yards about 16 inches. As the high-scoring ring in targets was 3 inches at 200 and 300 yards, 12 inches at 600 and 20 inches at 1000, the top scores fired would have 90+ percent of the shots inside this V-ring.

Along came the 7.62mm NATO and its commercial version; the .308 Winchester. In the best rifles, 200 yard groups were about 3/4ths inch, at 300 about 1-1/2 inch. At 600 yards, groups were about 2-1/2 inch and at 1000 about 7 to 8 inches. It was not very long before the .30-06 round no longer won matches nor set any records; all it's records were broken by the .308 by a considerable margin. Some accuracy tests at 600 yards with the .308 produced test groups in the 1 to 2 inch range. These were 20 to 40 shot groups. No .30-06 has ever come close to shooting that well.

At 1000 yards, where both the .30-06 and .308 were allowed in Palma matches, the .308 was the clear-cut most accurate of the two. If top shooters felt the .30-06 was a more accurate round, they would have used it - they didn't. In fact by the early 1970s, the scoring ring dimensions on the 800 - 1000 yard target were also cut in about half due to the accuracy of both the .308 Win. over the .30-06 and the .30-.338 over the .300 H&H when used in long range matches.

Most top highpower shooters feel the main reason the .308 is much more accurate than the .30-06 is its shorter, fatter case promotes more uniform and gentle push on the bullet due to a higher loading density (less air space) and a more easily uniformly ignitable powder charge.

Military arsenals who produced match and service ammo in both 7.62mm and 30 caliber have fired thousands of test rounds/groups with both. They also found out that with both ammo types, the smallest groups were with the 7.62 by about 50 to 60 percent. M1 rifles in 7.62 shot about twice as small of groups as .30 M1s at all ranges. When the M14 was first used, there were some .30-06 M1 rifles that would shoot more accurately. It took the service teams several years to perfect the methods of making M14s shoot well, but when they did, they shot as good as M1s in 7.62.

There will always be folks who claim the .30-06 is a more accurate cartridge. All I have to say to them is to properly test .308 vs. .30-06 and find out. Theory is nice to think about; facts determine the truth.

The .30-06 round has more power (barely) and theoretically longer range, but more precision ammunition is made for the .308 Winchester rifle. The .308 also has less recoil and barrel life will be longer, and as a short-action rifle it is less expensive and more common..

The US military uses .308 and to a far lesser extent .50 Caliber and .338 rounds as sniper rounds. In the recent past they also used .300 Winchester Magnum.

In theory, the same high-performance and high-ballistic-coefficient bullets used in .308 match target ammunition can be used in the .30-06.

.308 ammunition is far, far more common than .30-06, and the .30-06 is not a current military round in major Western powers.

[Ghost]

The 308 is going to be the more accurate rifle when comparing it to the 06 mainly because of felt recoil. The 06 does have some serious recoil for those who have physical limitations like a shoulder injury like myself. The 308 does have a bigger selection of match grade / tactical ammunition which also contributes to the higher accuracy. The maximum effective kill range for the 308 is around 900 yards. The military does state the the maximum kill range is 800 meters. The longest kill on record for the 308 is 1312 yards. The gun is quite at home on the range shooting at targets at 1,000 yards, past that and the angle of decent is quite severe.