Running Shots at Deer

[treedude]

Thesis: It is un-ethical to take an off-hand, running shot at a previously un-injured deer at distances greater than - say 10 yards.

Situation: An healthy deer jumps up or runs past you as you're walking or otherwise moving around, or a deer runs past you while on stand, catching you un-awares.

I'm talking about snap-shots. Hail-mary's. "I hope I can hit the deer" shots. Anything where you are NOT sure that your bullet or arrow will kill the animal in short order. Long distance shooting for the un-prepared and un-practiced would fall into this category, too.

Arguments/Evidence: 1. At a check station on opening day I talked with a man who had a really nice buck in his truck. He said, "Yeah, I was hoping for something bigger, but this guy was limping so bad, and shot up already that I couldn't let him go off and suffer." He described how the whole front shoulder on the deer had been shot-up, and how the massive deer almost fell each time he stepped out with his left front leg. However, the post-mortem showed only two extra holes in the buck: one from the guy I talked to, through the top of the shoulder blades breaking the back, the other was a neat 1/2 inch hole (12 ga. slug) through the pad of one toe on his front left hoof...more than likely from a running shot.

2. Just a few years ago family members found one of the 'elk' I have spoken of in other posts. A buck that was likely 7 or 8 years old, approaching 300 lbs live-weight, having antlers that would easily measure 12-13" around (no kidding), 17 points and a 26" spread - would've easily made B&C had not the finders SHOT THE ANTLERS OFF!!!! (a completely seperate story.....)

This big buck was totally wasted. The cause of death? A slug hole in the rear ham put him down less than 100 yards from where he was likely shot. However, since he "ran off", the shooters figured him healthy and never bothered to follow his trail and find the trophy of a lifetime.

3. Deer hunting is exciting! Seeing a deer (any deer) gets me going! Add to all this adrenaline pumping stuff the motion of the deer, raising your weapon, aiming (hopefully), hurrying to get your shot off...quick, what's on the other side of the deer? Where is your bullet heading afterwards? Where are the other members of your party? Safety is a huge factor in hunting, and another reason not to shoot at a running deer.

Further Discussion: Running shots are a way of life. I have taken running shots at healthy deer, and regretted every one for not knowing FOR SURE that the animal was healthy when it got away. I am trying to never let it happen again.

Southern hunters (and others with deer dogs) may be offended at the idea of not shooting running deer, because that's their tradition. Buck-shot may take some of the 'accuracy problems' out of shooting running deer, I wouldn't know. However, tradition or not, if the shot is 'low-percentage', it shouldn't be taken.

I have heard of hunters saying that shooting a deer just isn't exciting if the deer isn't running. If you need that kind of sport, take up skeet.

Wounded game is a different story. If you know an animal is wounded and leaving the area, it is your obligation to do your best to not let it get away.

Conclusion: We have a responsibility as hunters to ensure our quarry dies the kind of death it deserves. If you cannot be sure your shot will result in instant or near-instant death, let the animal pass. You may get a better shot moments later, anyway.

[Huntress]

As for myself I agree with you 100%. I would never take a shot at a running deer, but I have a friend who does it all the time with great success. I think the difference between us is confidence. He practices ALL the time under different situations and long yardages and is very confident in his shots. I only get to the range a few times a year.

The hoof shot on that deer could have been a deflection of the bullet/slug. I shot a buck one year that was standing still at 75 yds---aimed for the shoulder and hit him way back. He still dropped like a rock but I thought my scope was off. After checking I found that I had hit a small tree that deflected my shot.

[texasrack]

Ethics are such a tough discussion. There are certainly some ethical situations that are cut and dry, but many many ethical issues deal more with the experience of a hunter than the situation itself.

I am a seasoned hunter and I still do not take running shots. Now if I have dropped a deer and he/she goes down and THEN gets up and runs. If I know I have hit the animal..I will take a shot to bring the animal down and end it's suffering. But to take a shot at a deer from the run to begin with..even with my experience (and I can shoot now) I choose not to.

Too many variables that I simply cannot control and the health of that animal is paramount to me if I don't feel 100% sure I can make a clean kill shot.

[barreledaction]

I applaud your conscientiousness and the fact that you are aware of your limitations. You're perfectly right in refraining from shots you're incapable of making. The time may come, after many shots and much experience, that you will feel comfortable with moving targets. There are probably many dog deer hunters who are not really competent to take long running shoots, but I doubt if many of us would discourage their aspect of hunting. Few of us consider
deer hunting a one shot sport, hence the repeating rifle. I am not the greatest shot around
but I have seldom hesitated to take a moving shot at animals, with gun or bow, at reasonable range. Believe me, I wouldn't do this if I wasn't confident it would result in a clean kill. Just don't be in a hurry to criticize those who do have the competence that you have not yet acquired.

[treedude]

The thread was born out of disgust. I have people I know personally that waste unknown numbers of deer each year, shooting, looking for a short while, then moving on to hunt another animal. We have later found several of them, including the massive trophy I mentioned, and another the year after.

I have taken shots at three wounded, running deer: one head shot, one neck shot, one liver shot. All were recovered immediately.

I have also shot (slung lead) at 3 healthy, running deer, and spent hours making sure I had missed, sick to my stomach with the idea that "I may have just wasted one".

"Alley-Oop" shots are for the basketball court, not the deer woods.

I guess the hope was that people would consider the shots they take. If a hunter has the ability and confidence, then more power to him/her.

In the end, each will make his own decision (shoot/don't shoot). In no way would I want to make that decision for someone, I just hoped to stir the thought process.

The other thing I wanted to clarify: I understand completely that there are many ways to look at things, and that I, personally, do not have the lock-down on all things correct and positive. I am just like most anyone else around, and just as likely to make mistakes as the next guy. I do not know everything, and don't intend to sound that way.

I do, however, feel passionately about not wounding and wasting deer.

[barreledaction]

You got my utmost respect, man. We need more like you in the woods

[rainmaker]

Thesis = question

Answer = maybe

It all boils down to each person's ability!!!JMHO

Yes I'm a Southerner that grew up shooting running deer with shotguns and for the record, I never lost one of them. Thanks to the dogs ;D

I have had to many experiences like you describe and they upset me just as much as it does you, however, my experiences shows that these types of injuries come from all sorts of weapons.
For me the most sickening was shooting deer during gun season only to find an infected wound from bow season. Because of this I no longer bow hunt, my choice. I would rather chase squirrels.JMHO

One can only hope that all hunters will respect the game and the sport enough to make sure of their shot placement and choice of weapon.

[Phishy]

treedude, for what its worth, i know, have seen and feel your frustration.

In my former job i would register deer, i recommend this for every one, just once take part of you opening day and hang out at the registration station, better yet volunteer to help in some way, if they'll let you, Most, nearly all the deer that came in were cleanly shot, but i have seen some mutilated deer, three legs shot off,(seen that twice now) and every time a deer full of holes comes in i'd mention something, not too snide, but the usual answer pertained something like "well i had to give it a chance", or "yeah I got lucky" I had one guy griping about how long it took him to get his deer, because he shot it on the other side of the S. Croix River and had to drive ten miles to get to the bridge and drive back to the deer. These are the culprits that give hunters a bad name.

[texasrack]

Excellent post from all of you.

For every 10 ethical hunters there is probably 1 who is not. These are the rascals that give PETA and other organizations some means of a ground to stand on (in their eyes of course).

This is why it is so vital to our sport to share experiences such as these and to teach our youngsters the rights and wrongs of hunting.

[nhhunter]

Thesis: It is un-ethical to take an off-hand, running shot at a previously un-injured deer at distances greater than - say 10 yards.

Sorry dude, but I know how to shoot! If you don't then by all means, just sit there!

Situation: An healthy deer jumps up or runs past you as you're walking or otherwise moving around, or a deer runs past you while on stand, catching you un-awares.

It is called hunting right? Never heard of deer giving warnings before.
"OK Mr. Deerhunter, I'm coming out now!"

I'm talking about snap-shots. Hail-mary's. "I hope I can hit the deer" shots. Anything where you are NOT sure that your bullet or arrow will kill the animal in short order. Long distance shooting for the un-prepared and un-practiced would fall into this category, too.

Duh! That's common sense

Arguments/Evidence: 1. At a check station on opening day I talked with a man who had a really nice buck in his truck. He said, "Yeah, I was hoping for something bigger, but this guy was limping so bad, and shot up already that I couldn't let him go off and suffer." He described how the whole front shoulder on the deer had been shot-up, and how the massive deer almost fell each time he stepped out with his left front leg. However, the post-mortem showed only two extra holes in the buck: one from the guy I talked to, through the top of the shoulder blades breaking the back, the other was a neat 1/2 inch hole (12 ga. slug) through the pad of one toe on his front left hoof...more than likely from a running shot.

I've seen Mother Nature be more cruel! Cars do a lot of damage to deer in heavy populated areas, should we all quit driving?

(12ga slug) through the pad of one toe on his front left hoof...more than likly from a running shot

Who are you? Quincy! quit watching CSI

2. Just a few years ago family members found one of the 'elk' I have spoken of in other posts. A buck that was likely 7 or 8 years old, approaching 300 lbs live-weight, having antlers that would easily measure 12-13" around (no kidding), 17 points and a 26" spread - would've easily made B&C had not the finders SHOT THE ANTLERS OFF!!!! (a completely seperate story.....)

I've cut antlers off deer I've found while walking my dog. This guy didn't have a saw and he would rather waste a bullet! What's the harm? Can't eat a rotting deer,right?

This big buck was totally wasted. The cause of death? A slug hole in the rear ham put him down less than 100 yards from where he was likely shot. However, since he "ran off", the shooters figured him healthy and never bothered to follow his trail and find the trophy of a lifetime.

poor judgement and a bad hunter NOT enough in my book to slam everyone that shoot at a running deer

3. Deer hunting is exciting! Seeing a deer (any deer) gets me going! Add to all this adrenaline pumping stuff the motion of the deer, raising your weapon, aiming (hopefully), hurrying to get your shot off...quick, what's on the other side of the deer? Where is your bullet heading afterwards? Where are the other members of your party? Safety is a huge factor in hunting, and another reason not to shoot at a running deer.

Duh! there's that common sense again!

Further Discussion: Running shots are a way of life. I have taken running shots at healthy deer, and regretted every one for not knowing FOR SURE that the animal was healthy when it got away. I am trying to never let it happen again.[/b]

Southern hunters (and others with deer dogs) may be offended at the idea of not shooting running deer, because that's their tradition. Buck-shot may take some of the 'accuracy problems' out of shooting running deer, I wouldn't know. However, tradition or not, if the shot is 'low-percentage', it shouldn't be taken.

only if you're a bad shot

I have heard of hunters saying that shooting a deer just isn't exciting if the deer isn't running. If you need that kind of sport, take up skeet.

In all my years of deer hunting! I've never heard that one before. Must be just in your neck of the woods

Wounded game is a different story. If you know an animal is wounded and leaving the area, it is your obligation to do your best to not let it get away.

Are you serious? If I supposedly can't think fast enough to get a good shot off, HOW am I to figure out the deer is wounded? You need to think your theory through a little better.

Conclusion: We have a responsibility as hunters to ensure our quarry dies the kind of death it deserves. If you cannot be sure your shot will result in instant or near-instant death, let the animal pass. You may get a better shot moments later, anyway.

Duh agian! Goes to show you that common sense plays a big part of hunting. Like life, not everyone has it and you just need to learn how to avoid these kind of people. Doesn't mean you have to slam everyone because you could be one of these people that don't know how to take a running shot

Thanks you for the post, it's been a long day in the office and I need to laugh. Try taking up dove hunting, rabbit hunting, duck hunting or as you said, "take up skeet"! These things could improve your shooting and you won't just have to sit there while that deer runs over the hill to a girl (or guy) that can shoot

[hogdogs]

it does all boil down to ABILITY! since i am to hyper to sit in a stand all morning, I would feel real unsafe tracking a running deer with the riflefrom a stand for fear of falling. From the ground I will take a running shot with a saddle gun and open sights (scopes are tough for me with a runner).

Consider that I was a poor kid that did nothing but shoot my fiberglass yard sale bow, and shoot bb gun on a DAILY basis. I never bought bb's as the farmers would give us a "treasure chest" of daisy bb's to shoot birds on their fields. we would get bored and shoot from farther and farther distance. we would have a buddy shoot right beside the bird and the "shooter" would get it when it jumped. we would walk fields kicking up the remnants of a wheat cutting as these were soon field rat and mice nests. When the mouse or rat would run we would "git 'er done" Inside the grain bins we would walk around the inside kicking up the dry corn flushing the rats and mice and as they run the circle we would pick them off! Do that for many years as a child with a BB rifle and a deer in a bound is a big ol' target that I can get a bead on and still have time to "take a breath...squeeze solid as you exhale" ...BLAM deer down! Brent

[Win Mag]

I have many years under my belt also,And i'm not happy with my rifles unless itheir shooting 2'' groups at 300 yds.And i take 4-6 deer every year with gun and bow.And not once did i ever feel the need to take a shot at a running deer.I don't care if it was a world class buck.I'll watch it run and disappear.There is no way you can put a precission hit on a running deer.Your just trying to hit the front quarters.
I have no doubts i can hit a running deer,That doesn't mean i need to prove to myself i can.

[barreledaction]

quite a debate, huh? I'd like to end by saying "if you feel comfortable with it, do it - if not, don't, but don't chastise someone for not adhering to your standards" There are some of us who can shoot a dime from the air with a bow, and some who can make some fabulous running shots at unbeleivable distances - and then there are some of us who couldn't hit a bull in the ass if it backed up on the barrel. I'm glad we have the freedom to choose.

[THE GOB-FATHER]

barreledaction said:

quite a debate, huh? I'd like to end by saying "if you feel comfortable with it, do it - if not, don't, but don't chastise someone for not adhering to your standards" There are some of us who can shoot a dime from the air with a bow, and some who can make some fabulous running shots at unbeleivable distances - and then there are some of us who couldn't hit a bull in the ass if it backed up on the barrel. I'm glad we have the freedom to choose.

Well said!

[mrjbigfoot]

Good thread & worthy of some debate! I much prefer to shoot deer that are standing still but I also don't like grunting them to a stop if they're just walking. I hate to bring a deer to full attention because I've seen how fast they can react (jump string) at the slightest sound or movement when they're on full alert. I've killed several nice bucks with my bow, putting an arrow through them as they walked by. I've never taken a bow shot on a deer that was running. I feel a little different if I'm gun hunting, late in the season and I'm a part of a drive (I normally fill my tags way before it gets to that any more) but I have killed a couple of nice deer with reasonably short range shots on drives. I to know some guys that it really doesn't matter if the deer is standing still or running... they flinch like crazy from the kick of a 12 gauge slug gun & they normally empty it... at a deer. Thank God Ohio went to a 3 slugs in the gun rule! It used to be nasty hearing all those 5 shot semi-auto's being emptied on opening day of gun season. I'm a firm believer in the 1 shot 1 kill philosophy of snipers. I also generally can outshoot some of my flinching buddies with rifle sights up against their Leopold scopes inside of 200 yards with a rifle. I'm the kind of guy that makes those kind of guys take me back out to where they emptied their gun, just so I can do a little C.S.I. for blood trails. In my past 29 years of deer hunting, I've lost count of how many deer I've blood trailed for somebody else that thought they missed it. I helped one buddy find the biggest buck he's ever killed & he was trying to figure out how he missed it... So, it does disturb me as well that maybe some folks don't belong out in the woods based on their shooting ability but that's not my decision to make so I just try to help them get better at shooting and blood trailing. If they flinch shooting a bolt or a pump action shotgun, I try to convince them that they'll be better off shooting a gas operated semi-auto or at the least dropping down to 2 & 3/4" slugs instead of 3 or 3 & 1/2" magnum loads. I also try to convince them that the 1st shot is the most important shot! I'd much rather be pro-active & try to help the guys I know get better than to just keep it to myself & be pissed about it.